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 Post subject: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 19 Apr 2010, 09:30 
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Just found out my form 4 was approved for my suppressor, so I'm wondering what experience you all have with SS rounds in .223/5.56.

I read somewhere that all "match" ammo is SS, is that accurate?

Would it really be worth it to use SS ammo in an AR? It's one thing in my P22, but I'm thinking I'll lose a lot of the punch from the round going SS.

Lastly, anyone experienced with this, are the commercial rounds worth while or would I do better loading my own? I've given serious thought lately to doing my own loading, so I think I may just try and develop my own load.

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 24 May 2010, 00:16 
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I just came across your post. I think you've answered your own question by saying you'll lose a lot of punch. In order to be subsonic the muzzel velocity would have to be below 1100 FPS. What would be the advantage of taking a round that normally runs between 3 and 4000 FPS and slowing it down to .22lr speeds. You'd have a close quarters round at best, but I think in that role you would be better served with a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 acp carbine at subsonic velocities. And really, I think the only one of the three that would have to be down loaded would be the 9mm. I don't have personal experience with SS .223 so I'm basing my opinion just on compareing the velocities and energies. JMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 26 May 2010, 15:45 
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BobbitTheHobbit wrote:
Just found out my form 4 was approved for my suppressor, so I'm wondering what experience you all have with SS rounds in .223/5.56.

I read somewhere that all "match" ammo is SS, is that accurate?

Would it really be worth it to use SS ammo in an AR? It's one thing in my P22, but I'm thinking I'll lose a lot of the punch from the round going SS.

Lastly, anyone experienced with this, are the commercial rounds worth while or would I do better loading my own? I've given serious thought lately to doing my own loading, so I think I may just try and develop my own load.

Thanks in advance!


The subsonic match ammo is 22 match ammo because they don't want it transitioning from supersonic to subsonic in flight. Otherwise you want it to stay supersonic throughout the flight.


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 27 May 2010, 15:00 
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Joined: 06 May 2010, 09:18
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Subsonic is cool with suppressor, Watch and listen to the you tube video. yeah there is an energy loss but the stealth factor makes it cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiUqB-LCHhA

You can get Subsonic rounds from the guys at North Rim Ammo in AJ give them a call at 480-982-6899. Ask for Mike or Monty. It'll be about $23.00 for a box of 50. plus tax and shipping.

They also carry 223-New LC Brass, 55gr Hornady FMJ 500 rds/$160 Special to Arizona Shooting Members for as special till June 10th.


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2010, 15:30 
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Good info.


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 13 Jun 2010, 16:38 
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My life work is to build the 90gr - 100gr subsonic that will cycle an AR. I've been working on it for years. There is a delicate combo of powder, bullet, and velocity that I haven't found yet. They are available commercially for about $2 a round. I've made many loads that are pellet gun quiet with a 77gr bullet but they wont cycle the action. You can't tell me a 32 gr .22 long rifle going 875 FPS is comparable to a 77gr goin 1050FPS

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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 16 Jun 2010, 11:28 
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1moreaug wrote:
My life work is to build the 90gr - 100gr subsonic that will cycle an AR. I've been working on it for years. There is a delicate combo of powder, bullet, and velocity that I haven't found yet. They are available commercially for about $2 a round. I've made many loads that are pellet gun quiet with a 77gr bullet but they wont cycle the action. You can't tell me a 32 gr .22 long rifle going 875 FPS is comparable to a 77gr goin 1050FPS



I have played with all the high end 5.56 that claim to cycle a gun. What they don't tell you is that you need to change out buffers or other stuff. Military was offering a huge contract for a subsonic that would cycle a unmodified M4. Never happened. Even with some of the exotic materials used. Get yourself a nice .22 kit shoot the aguila ammo. Same effect, cycles the gun, and a whole lot cheaper


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 17 Jun 2010, 22:04 
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Sure, a .22 kit will send an Aguila 62 gr down range and cycle the action....but I want to be the guy that made the subsonic load that cycles a standard AR. As meaningless as it may be to most people, it is a puzzle that hasn't been solved yet and I love puzzles like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 18 Jun 2010, 12:27 
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1moreaug wrote:
Sure, a .22 kit will send an Aguila 62 gr down range and cycle the action....but I want to be the guy that made the subsonic load that cycles a standard AR. As meaningless as it may be to most people, it is a puzzle that hasn't been solved yet and I love puzzles like that.



It has not been solved yet because it is not probable. Anything is possible, so I am not going to say it is impossible. Getting an AR to cycle with subsonic is like getting a 350 horse power V8 sport car to get 50 miles per gallon.

You have a gun that is designed to some relatively strict tolerances to reliably fire a 60 or so grain 5.56mm projectile at 3200 feet per second. You want to use that same gun to fire a 5.56mm projectile at 1000 feet per second. Just not going to happen. The only possible way to make it work would be to add a lot of weight to the projectile. You can not increase the diameter and you can only go so far with the length. cant really increase the weight of lead. Maybe you could use some uranium or osmium.

5.56 60 grain at 3200 fps has 1364 foot pounds of energy with 27 pounds of momentum. Reducing the velocity to 1000 foot per second you would need a 200 grain projectile to get that much momentum and have about 445 foot pounds of energy.

If you can figure it out, more power to you. You will definitely be a rich man.


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 18 Jun 2010, 21:24 
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You are also forgetting about the bearing surface of the projectile. A 60 Gr Noslet V-Max is .8725" in length and the bearing surface (area that contacts the rifling) is .465". A 77Gr Sierra HPBT is .985" in length but the bearing surface is only .365".
I believe if I can make a 1.25" lead bullet that has an actual bearing surface of 1" I would be able to use a slow enough powder to maintain enough gas pressure at the gas port to cycle the action. Based on some really rough calculations, I think I could create a lead bullet of around 180 - 200 Grains with those dimensions. The bullet could easily be seated deep enough to keep the COAL down to 2.255 which is the magazine length for the AR15. The problem with the lead is....would the heat of the ignition melt that portion of the bullet that is buried below the case neck and cause a whole new problem of molten lead flowing down the barrel?

Since I can't find anyone that can make me a bunch of 1.25" .225 lead bullets, I am now leaning towards copper or a copper alloy. They won't hit the potential 200 grains I wanted but I think I would still have potential for 120 - 140 Grains. Maybe I can find a machinist that would do some side work turning me about 100 rounds of 1.25" round nose rods out on a lathe so I can test out my theories. If I could afford some silver, gold, palladium, depleted uranium, or platinum they would be awesome projectile candidates, but....well....I don't think I need to state the obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 18 Jun 2010, 22:58 
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BobbitTheHobbit wrote:
Just found out my form 4 was approved for my suppressor, so I'm wondering what experience you all have with SS rounds in .223/5.56.

Here's an idea. Buy a 9mm upper in the same barrel length as your approved Form 1, then you can run a truly effective subsonic SBR that won't be a red herring.

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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 19 Jun 2010, 10:42 
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Or you can buy a more adult size upper like a 458 socam and handload some 400 grain subsonic for real stopping power. Unfortunately with either the 9mm or 458 you will need another can and kind of defeats your purpose


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 Post subject: Re: Subsonic .223/5.56
New postPosted: 19 Jun 2010, 11:08 
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Skipo wrote:
Unfortunately with either the 9mm or 458 you will need another can and kind of defeats your purpose

Yeah but a 9mm can is second only to a 22LR can in versatility and 'fun factor'. If you're going to get into suppressors, a 9mm can is almost a necessity.

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