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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: December 30th, 2017, 1:35 am 
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Keefe report wrote:

Keefe Report: Seriously, Is the .40 S&W Dead?
by Mark Keefe - Friday, February 26, 2016

Keefe Report: Seriously, Is the .40 S&W Dead?

Is the .40 S&W dead? I know, it sounds like an inflammatory newsstand gun magazine blurb from the 1980s. But it’s a topic that is been circulating around the firearm industry as of late. For most of the past couple decades, .40 S&W has been king of the hill when it comes to American law enforcement. Of course the .40 S&W was derived from the 10 mm Auto, which of course was created in response to the lack of ballistic performance of the 9 mm Luger as evidenced by the FBI’s ballistics report on the so-called “Miami Massacre.” The 9 mm failed to stop the threat, pure and simple.

While Layne Simpson did an excellent job of telling the story of the 10 mm Auto in a recent article, the .40 S&W went on to become something the 10 mm could not. And that is the primary duty cartridge of most American law-enforcement agencies. That appears to be changing. It’s not that .40 S&W has gotten any worse, it’s just that defensive 9 mm bullets have gotten better.

Interestingly, a few of the new firearms platforms introduced this year are in 9 mm or .45 ACP only, making the absence of the 40 S&W conspicuous. Once exception—because there are always exceptions—is that the excellent striker-fired Heckler & Koch VP9 just received a ballistic upgrade to the .40 as the VP40. Which makes perfect sense as H&K provides many of its pistols to law-enforcement agencies that issue .40 S&W.

I asked the question directly to one major manufacturer and the firm’s new duty-size pistol about when the .40 S&W was coming. He told me they had no plans to do it. Demand for .40s in that company’s other platforms was already dramatically down. That said, he went on to say, "We're capitalists. If we get a big order, we will make them." Gunmakers are in the business of making guns to sell for a profit. Making a gun just because you want to do so is little more than a form of industrial philanthropy. If no one wants to buy it, there's no good read business reason to make it.

There's no doubt that the external ballistics of the .40 S&W are superior to the 9 mm. You have a bigger, typically heavier, bullet and are delivering more energy on target. Exterior ballistics have not changed. No, it is wound ballistics that have improved the fortunes of the 9 mm. Frankly, new projectiles in rounds such as the Speer Gold Dot 2 (adopted by the FBI), Barnes Tac-XPD, Federal HST2, Hornady Critical Duty, Remington Golden Saber Black Belt and Winchester Ranger Bonded in FBI protocol tests have proved to be extremely effective. So much so many other agencies are changing over from .40 S&W to 9 mm, too.

With increased energy downrange on the .40 S&W you also get increased energy passed on to the shooter. It's simply physics. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. It seems I’ve read that somewhere. But if you have a heavier bullet moving at a higher velocity, there will be more recoil. In the .40 S&W, I think slide velocity, too, plays a role. With a gun that kicks less, it is easier to train new offers officers to shoot their guns better and with more confidence. Police officers afraid of their guns is a bad thing.

During the recent runs on ammunition caused by presidential dictum or the threat of draconian gun legislation, the one defensive handgun caliber that always seem to be on the shelf was .40 S&W. It is my opinion that many of the users of the .40 S&W have their ammunition issued to them. Few deem the .40 S&W as a fun plinking round, so you do not get the economy of scale like you do with 9 mm and .40 S&W. It is a defensive cartridge first and foremost. Most .40 S&W rounds are expended in training, not at beer cans. So it costs more, round for round.

There's a lot to like about the .40 S&W if you can handle the recoil. But if you put the same gun—except with the barrel and recoil spring changed out—in the hands of a user and then have them shoot 9 mm, it is obvious that the nine is a much more pleasant experience. Now that terminal ballistic performance of the 9 mm has improved, demand for the .40 S&W appears to be in decline in police circles.

I don't think it will ever go away; it will just lose its role over time as America's primary duty cartridge. When you read gunwriter reviews of small lightweight guns chambered in .40 S&W you will often see the word “snappy.” Just in case you're wondering, that's a gunwriter code word for “unpleasant.” Back in the day, writers often referred to the 10 mm Auto as “snappy,” too. A 0.355” bullet can expand to 0.400”, but it’s unlikely a 0.400” will contract to 0.355”. It appears to not matter.


I'm always wrong. But opinions being what they are here are a few more on both sides.

https://www.google.com/search?q=40+s+w+a+dead+caliber&oq=40+s+w+a+dead+caliber&aqs=chrome..69i57j33l3.12180j0j7&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Any further poo flinging will be one sided. No need to devolve into the usual stick poking.

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***disclaimer*** The preceding post may contain humor and or sarcasm or was manufactured in a brain where humor and sarcasm are known to be present so some cross contamination may have occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: December 30th, 2017, 9:14 am 
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I don't understand the market for this product.

There are multiple manufacturers selling ARs in 9mm and all AR prices are dropping like rocks. If the glamor is a "take-down" version, 2 pins and any AR is a "take=down". The AR platform also has somewhere North of a million options for upgrades, customizations, and spare parts. Maybe it's just me but Ruger already has an AR platform why compete with High-Point?

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: December 30th, 2017, 1:30 pm 
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mr45acp wrote:
Hey, I keep a .40 in my car. Who'd steal a .40 anyway, right?

I approve of this use of a .40

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 8th, 2018, 5:44 pm 
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I got Ruger's announcement email while I was at Ben Avery, I've got a Hi Point 995TS already but I wouldn't mind adding this to my collection. I missed the boat on the Marlin camp gun style carbines, I'm glad Ruger went and did this.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 8th, 2018, 6:06 pm 
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Location: Phuk roof top voting machines. My radical right wing extreemists and I are moving on to Guillotines
Maybe it will lesson the rape and extortion fees that camp 9s seem to bring.

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***disclaimer*** The preceding post may contain humor and or sarcasm or was manufactured in a brain where humor and sarcasm are known to be present so some cross contamination may have occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 9th, 2018, 8:24 pm 
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AZS; Woohoo!
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I will just leave this here........



Image

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ranger_sxt wrote:
This is a warning regarding the following post made by you:
http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=194321

If this was just blatantly off-topic, I wouldn't have done anything, but you put it in the classified ads...


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 10th, 2018, 7:13 am 
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Joined: November 12th, 2009, 1:57 pm
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Location: N.PHX near Ben Avery Range
^ That is an interesting option but too bad Century has their mitts on it. If they just sell it and don't mess with it then possible option for those who love the AK. Thanks for posting this RH [smilie=icon_mi_6.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 10th, 2018, 1:26 pm 
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Joined: March 28th, 2005, 1:08 pm
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Location: Chandler, AZ
Just think, you can take all those .40 projectiles and load them into 10mm and then you could feel good about yourself again. And everyone will want to be your friend.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 31st, 2018, 7:18 pm 
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Got to shoot the Ruger today, at Scottsdale Gun Club. (Friend of mine is testing one for a gun magazine.)

I like it -- a lot.

Cool features:

The magazine well is a replaceable plastic piece. Currently, mag wells are available for Ruger and Glock magazines. In the future, should not be a problem to make magazine wells for any magazine.

The bolt handle is reversible.

The magazine release is reversible.

It's a takedown.

It comes with the barrel threaded.

It has nice iron ghost ring sights, although the rear aperture is quite far forward.

It has a rail on top for optical sight.

It has a very short (2-slot) attachment at the front for a flashlight.

It has spacers so you can adjust the length of the stock. (But not short enough for a child, so can't be used as a trainer. Wish they would do that for this rifle, and especially for the 10/22)

Nice trigger, at least on the one we shot.

Uncool features:

Crossbolt safety, like the 10/22. I would have preferred a top slider like the Mossberg 500 or the old Ruger 77.

Bolt hold-open copied from the 10/22, at the front of the trigger guard. Not horrible, but not instinctive, either. Would have preferred a latch close to the bolt, to make it obvious.

-------

Using just the iron sights, no problem keeping all shots around 4" at 70 feet (max distance at SGC). Snap shots at 30 feet not difficult at all, all hits in the center of their #12 target (3x5?). Boringly easy to hit with.

My opinion: this is going to be a great home defense piece. Very easy to hit with. Unlike shotguns, which beat up and discourage new gun owners, there is no recoil to worry about. Prediction: they will sell a passel of them.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 31st, 2018, 7:32 pm 
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Joined: May 5th, 2014, 7:35 am
Posts: 407
I got mine yesterday and like it but have not shot it yet.
I swapped the charging handle to the left side and removed the 1/2 butt stock spacer.
Going to run a burris fast fire for now. Need a lower mount for the MRO.

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: January 31st, 2018, 7:38 pm 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
I don't know why but I want one of these...


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: February 8th, 2018, 10:16 pm 
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AZS; Woohoo!
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Location: Arizona
PCC = Pistol Caliber Carbine.... its an offshoot of the IPSC/IDPA/Steel/3-gun type shooting... they do it monthly at Rio and I think PRGC is back doing it again monthly.

HUGE fun!!!!

9mm ammo is cheap, unlike .22LR it hits hard enough to knock the plate off a texas star and unlike .223 its is safe to shoot steel at close range...

If you're reading this, you probably have a perfectly good .223/5.56 AR, or several and a 9mm pistol, or several, but if you're looking for a reason to get an AR in 9mm or this Ruger thing.... PCC is a reason!

shoot good ya'll!


Poole

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: February 9th, 2018, 9:37 am 
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DuneShoot wrote:
I got mine yesterday and like it but have not shot it yet.
I swapped the charging handle to the left side and removed the 1/2 butt stock spacer.
Going to run a burris fast fire for now. Need a lower mount for the MRO.

Image
Image


First kid on the block! Sweet.

I keep getting back-in-stock notifications from KyGunCo, but they're always OOS when I clicky. All in good time, I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: February 9th, 2018, 1:09 pm 
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Joined: October 27th, 2006, 2:34 pm
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Location: Gilbert
Try one of these:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Ruger 9mm take down
New postPosted: February 12th, 2018, 8:15 am 
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AZS is my home
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Joined: September 8th, 2005, 2:43 pm
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Location: Phuk roof top voting machines. My radical right wing extreemists and I are moving on to Guillotines
Flash wrote:
Try one of these:
Image

Or a pm9 a scorpion 1000 rounds of ammunition and a mag or 2.

Sig imperfection starts at the price.

JMHO.

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***disclaimer*** The preceding post may contain humor and or sarcasm or was manufactured in a brain where humor and sarcasm are known to be present so some cross contamination may have occurred.


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