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 Post subject: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 10:29 
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... scene.html


the Article wrote:
It's just like any other Monday in downtown Phoenix. Except for all the police, protesters, secret service agents and gnarled traffic.

In the hours leading up to the working part of President Barack Obama's working vacation, the scene outside the Phoenix Convention Center was bustling.

At exactly 9:51 this morning, his motorcade pulled up to the convention center.

He is now addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars gathered for their annual national convention late this morning.

After first thanking a series of people, he started in his speech.

"Members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, I am honored and humbled to stand before you as Commander-in-Chief of the finest military the world has ever known. And we're joined by some of those who make it the finest force in world-from Luke Air Force Base, members of the 56th Fighter Wing.

Whether you wear the uniform today, or wore it decades ago, you remind us of a fundamental truth. It's not the powerful weapons that make our military the strongest in the world. It's not the sophisticated systems that make us the most advanced. No, the true strength of our military lies in the spirit and skill of our men and women in uniform.

You know this. It is the story of your lives. When fascism seemed unstoppable and our harbor was bombed, you battled across rocky Pacific islands and stormed the beaches of Europe, marching across a continent-my own grandfather and uncle among your ranks-liberating millions and turning enemies into allies."

But outside the convention center, the battle is over health-care.

The epicenter of the debate appears to be at the corner of 3rd and Washington streets.

People on both sides are chanting and counter-chanting to make their points.

Signs are waved and fingers are pointed, but the overall mood in the city is more excitement than anger.

As of 9:30, police are reporting no arrests or calls for medical assistance.

Although as the temperatures, rise, it's possible people will start to falter.

Throngs of people, some supporting the president's plan to reform the system, and some opposed to his plan, are milling about expressing themselves with their voices, hand-made signs, and t-shirts.

Douglas Ducharme, 50, a dispatcher from Tempe, was dressed like the grim reaper in a black hood and gray cape, standing on the corner of 2nd Street and Adams.

Holding a sign that said AARP NOW RIP, he was protesting any changes to the current healthcare system. "This is America. We have the right to choose and the freedom to choose," he yelled.

Army reservist, Lt. Corey Harris, 33, of Peoria, said he just returned from Iraq eight days ago.

He said he has experienced first hand the ability of the government to help administer health care.

"As someone who has been involved in the VA system, I've seen the great job government can do in getting involved in health-care," Harris said. "Everyone deserves health-care."

Jane Kibler, 56, of Florida, member of the Ladies Auxiliary to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, was on her way over to the convention hall to hear President Obama speak.

She described herself as a Democrat and said she voted for Obama, but said this would be the first time she'll have heard him speak in person.

She said veterans are really looking forward to what he has to say. "I know they (vets) do have some concerns about veterans' benefits."

There were pockets of people on both sides of the health care debate walking around the city.

Elaine Gangbluff, 73, of Phoenix, was holding a sign that read: If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it's free.

"I'm strongly opposed to government running health-care. That should be between my doctor and myself," she said.

She added that she is also opposed generally to the president's administration.

"We're printing money we don't have, and borrowing money we can't pay," Gangbluff said.

But those in favor of health-care reform are also out in large numbers.

A line of people in support of a new plan reached down Washington Street between 3rd Street and 5th Street.

One sight was perhaps a little un-nerving to those in charge of making sure everybody remains on their best behavior.

A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.

"Because I can do it," he said when asked why he was armed. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms."

Two police officers were staying very close to the man.

"What he is doing is perfectly legal," Detective J. Oliver, of the Phoenix police department
said. "We are here to keep the peace. If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time."

Jim Mariman, an Idaho veteran of the Korean War and the Vietnam War, was spending his time outside the convention center rather than in it.

"What we are seeing here is people specking their minds and their hearts," Mariman said.

Mariman is opposed to Obama's health-care reform plan, but enjoys the fact that those who disagree with him, can disagree with him openly.

"These people can protest because I gave them the right."

There have been some instances of the debate turning a little more contentious.

Leonard Clark of Phoenix calls himself an Independent.

Standing on the corner near 3rd and Washington streets, he stopped and said those opposed to health-care reform were only doing so because the president "is black."

Immediately, a group of people opposed to the presidents plan and surrounded him, yelling "race baiter, race baiter, race baiter" at the top of their lungs.

Doug Ducharme, of Tempe was one of those yelling.

"This has nothing to do with the president being black," he said. "My ex-wife is black."



A f***ing semi-automatic assault rifle?

What the f***? I'm getting so f***ing disgusted at this shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 10:57 
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eviilboy wrote:
A f***ing semi-automatic assault rifle?

What the f***? I'm getting so f***ing disgusted at this shit.
We're the media, let's not dabble in definitions now [smilie=icon_rolleyes.gif]

I feel your anguish. . . at least this badass guy wasn't arrested. I propose all of us at AZS do the same thing "next time," but with old-school bolt and lever actions (hell, even black-powder). Then you'll see how pathetic the media really is.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:03 
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Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 21:10
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Yeah, I know the feeling.
The idiots in media just refuse to grasp the idea.
Hell, even if they would just check with Wikepedia, they might learn something...
Uhhh, Ohhhh, it needs a selective fire capability...to be an assault rifle.
DOES NOT APPLY TO SEMI-AUTO ONLY rifles...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:08 
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im amazed they didnt disarm him, being in the same area as the president.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:16 
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btw, my point wasn't that he was there with the rifle.

My point is the media continually trying to change the terms and definitions of things to further villify them.... That's what I'm upset about.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:22 
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008, 20:46
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azbubba wrote:
im amazed they didnt disarm him, being in the same area as the president.


Me too, three cheers for the Phoenix P.D. for understanding the law and not overreacting.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:24 
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eviilboy wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/08/17/20090817obama-scene.html


the Article wrote:

A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.

"Because I can do it," he said when asked why he was armed. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms."

Two police officers were staying very close to the man.

"What he is doing is perfectly legal," Detective J. Oliver, of the Phoenix police department
said. "We are here to keep the peace. If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time."



The best answer from the police I have heard in a while.

Just one question, which one of us from AZS was it. RJ where were you this morning? :p

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 11:49 
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azbubba wrote:
im amazed they didnt disarm him, being in the same area as the president.


There shouldn't a 'Zone of UnConstitutionality' around ANYONE.

Yea, +1 for a level-headed police statement, for once.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:44 
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So wait...Let me get this straight, that guy with the AR-15 was protesting FOR health care reform!?!?!?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:50 
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I'm guessing it was Sigfan228. I just wonder if the AR was loaded.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:54 
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Cubiclerevolt wrote:
So wait...Let me get this straight, that guy with the AR-15 was protesting FOR health care reform!?!?!?



I think he was more or less there to push the comfort level of most anti-sheep.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:54 
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Pictures from AZCentral:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:55 
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So it is legal to OC a rifle on a sling???


D.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:59 
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xjedix wrote:
So it is legal to OC a rifle on a sling???


D.


I've done it before in a Walmart. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gun at the Obama rally here in az.
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 12:59 
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AZS; Woohoo!
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 20:01
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Location: Chandler, Az.
xjedix wrote:
So it is legal to OC a rifle on a sling???


D.



Read the article?

And, btw, why wouldn't it be legal to OC a rifle on a sling?

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