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 Post subject: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense?
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 1:48 am 
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AZS; Woohoo!
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 3:43 am
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Just curious if there are calibers that will get you arrested for defending yourself with?


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 4:21 am 
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Technically, no. But a few years ago a lawyer tried to say that carrying 10mm constituted a desire to kill someone because it was overpowered to stop a threat.

"Justifiable" self defense gives lawyers some rope to try to hang you with.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 5:29 am 
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Ah yes, the Harold Fish case.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 5:38 pm 
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I read about the Harold Fish case recently, is there anything to prevent the same argument from being used again?


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 6:26 pm 
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30mm might raise an eyebrow?

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 6:30 pm 
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deathbydanish wrote:
I read about the Harold Fish case recently, is there anything to prevent the same argument from being used again?

A good lawyer, and an impartial judge.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 9:25 pm 
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Internet legends again? A 10 mm is overkill? A lawyer can say anything they want, the 45 was designed to drop the moors DRT, is that overkill or surviving? If I get in a gunfight my objective is to walk away with minimal or no damage to myself and loved ones, if the BG dies as a result he should have picked a weaker victim! Was my intent to kill or be killed or stop with minimal force and be killed? I carry a 9m but triple tap and if situation warrants might even head shot to be sure BG or BG's don't get up again while I am tending my or others wounds or what ever. A gunfight is War not a sporting event

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 10:54 pm 
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A 10mm with handloads... That’s proof positive of your mission to kill to fullest level of dead. [smilie=anim_banghead.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 20th, 2017, 11:01 pm 
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milquetoast wrote:
deathbydanish wrote:
I read about the Harold Fish case recently, is there anything to prevent the same argument from being used again?

A good lawyer, and an impartial judge.
... and the fact the law that caused the debacle has been completely rewritten?


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 21st, 2017, 7:46 am 
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The prosecution argument about using evil hollowpoints to maim and cause suffering beyond self defense is decades old. A decent defense lawyer should be able to neutralize it easily. The 10mm argument is just a variation of that, but the defense lawyer never countered it. (Never got a chance to, as I heard it.)

I do think it is probably wise to avoid guns and ammunition with hostile names, like Raptor, Terminator, Radically Invasive Projectile (R.I.P.), etc. Ranger, Gold Dot, etc. are more neutral, and it couldn't hurt (IMO) if the slide of your pistol was engraved with the words "Target Model" or "Self-Defense" or "Model 17" rather than "Avenger" or "Punisher."

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 21st, 2017, 4:55 pm 
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milquetoast wrote:
I do think it is probably wise to avoid guns and ammunition with hostile names, like Raptor, Terminator, Radically Invasive Projectile (R.I.P.), etc. Ranger, Gold Dot, etc. are more neutral, and it couldn't hurt (IMO) if the slide of your pistol was engraved with the words "Target Model" or "Self-Defense" or "Model 17" rather than "Avenger" or "Punisher."


Don't ever wear a punisher t shirt or one that mentions "letting God sort them out after you kill them all" or carry a wallet that says "death from above" and for all that's holy don't play first person shooter video games. You will go straight from the Grand jury hearing to death row.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 22nd, 2017, 7:51 am 
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Wonder if the pistol was engraved with " BLM" or "HRC"..... Maybe Pink in color....

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am 
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In at least one state -- New Jersey -- possession of hollow point ammunition is a Crime Against Humanity. There may be others.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 22nd, 2017, 2:20 pm 
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milquetoast wrote:
In at least one state -- New Jersey -- possession of hollow point ammunition is a Crime Against Humanity. There may be others.


Actually, no. As long as they're in factory packaging, you can drive a truckload full of HPs through New Jersey - they only become worth $1000 fine - per round once they're loaded into a cylinder or magazine.

As to what calibers are deemed 'illegal', that pretty much rests with the prejudices of the prosecutor (unless it's someplace like Pima County, where somebody like County Attorney Barbara LaWall would like to prosecute you for merely wanting to own a firearm).

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any calibers that are illegal for self defense
New postPosted: November 22nd, 2017, 4:26 pm 
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HairyEyeball wrote:
milquetoast wrote:
In at least one state -- New Jersey -- possession of hollow point ammunition is a Crime Against Humanity. There may be others.


Actually, no. As long as they're in factory packaging, you can drive a truckload full of HPs through New Jersey - they only become worth $1000 fine - per round once they're loaded into a cylinder or magazine.

As to what calibers are deemed 'illegal', that pretty much rests with the prejudices of the prosecutor (unless it's someplace like Pima County, where somebody like County Attorney Barbara LaWall would like to prosecute you for merely wanting to own a firearm).

Good to know. So you can use hollow-point ammo for self defense in New Jersey; you just have to throw it at the BG -- in the factory packaging. [smilie=icon_mrgreen.gif]

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