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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 10 Sep 2009, 08:00 
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I guess does and will vary on what the LEO would put into definition what the length would be for s a knife. I read in another forum that he is a LEO and the way he checks is he opens his palm and places the blade on it and if the blade is longer than his palm guessing that he is of regular size and does not possess small hands then he says that you would need a ccw for the knife. any LEO's use the same comparison check here?

thanks,


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 10 Sep 2009, 08:13 
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JAMNMIKE wrote:
I guess does and will vary on what the LEO would put into definition what the length would be for s a knife. I read in another forum that he is a LEO and the way he checks is he opens his palm and places the blade on it and if the blade is longer than his palm guessing that he is of regular size and does not possess small hands then he says that you would need a ccw for the knife. any LEO's use the same comparison check here?

thanks,


Interesting.... I will ask around.

John

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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 10 Sep 2009, 09:55 
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JAMNMIKE wrote:
I guess does and will vary on what the LEO would put into definition what the length would be for s a knife. I read in another forum that he is a LEO and the way he checks is he opens his palm and places the blade on it and if the blade is longer than his palm guessing that he is of regular size and does not possess small hands then he says that you would need a ccw for the knife. any LEO's use the same comparison check here?

thanks,



Pretty much every cop I've ever known does about the same thing, in any state I've ever been in.

It's one of those standard "street law" things.

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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 10 Sep 2009, 11:21 
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My son was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon by a Tucson policeman. He was 18 at the time. The weapon was a pocket knife with a 3 inch blade. They actually took him to jail. Carrying a concealed weapon was the only charge. I went and got him out and they gave his knife back to him. He pleaded not guilty and went to court. The judge through the case out and said anything 3 inches and under was not considered concealed. He then scolded the policeman and told him to read up on his laws. This was 11 years ago so unless something has changed a knife with a blade 3 inches and under is legal to put in your pocket.


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 10 Sep 2009, 11:33 
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Ballistic Therapy wrote:
My son was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon by a Tucson policeman. He was 18 at the time. The weapon was a pocket knife with a 3 inch blade. They actually took him to jail. Carrying a concealed weapon was the only charge. I went and got him out and they gave his knife back to him. He pleaded not guilty and went to court. The judge through the case out and said anything 3 inches and under was not considered concealed. He then scolded the policeman and told him to read up on his laws. This was 11 years ago so unless something has changed a knife with a blade 3 inches and under is legal to put in your pocket.


I use 4" in length mainly because most pocket knives are 3 3/4" or less (all of mine are 3 3/4" in length).

Depending on the area this can and may vary too.

John

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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 12 Sep 2009, 13:56 
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Hansen wrote:
Quote:
I haven't found an A.R.S.,


Becuase there is not one for Blade length specifically, You need to follow the "Deadly Weapon" term. Was the knife designed for lethal purposes???? Some knives I have come across that are 4' or longer are designed for gutting, fighting/ killing. If the knife you have fits this definition, then you may be asked for a CCW permit (if concealing). It is entirely up the officer and his interpetation at that point.

As already stated; look closely at individual city ord's... These can vary greatly between cities.

John


Yes I understand there are none for specific blade length and the only thing remotely official is the AZDPS handout I quoted.

Now to the two statutes below add to the confusion. The first one says it's a deadly weapon if it was designd for lethal use and the second covers everything else. A bat wasn't designed to kill but will be considered a dangerous instrument when it's used to cave someones head in.

13-3101 1. "Deadly weapon" means anything that is designed for lethal use. The term includes a firearm.

13-105 12. "Dangerous instrument" means anything that under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

However, the CCW permit will cover a person seen limping because of the Katana concealed in the pants leg, so long as they're not committing a crime.

Vito.


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 18 Aug 2010, 23:31 
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Being a CCW permit holder I'm not concerned about carrying an auto knife or pistol in most places in AZ.

Had a friend ask a good question tonight.

Does the new CCW law change anything with carrying a knife over 3"?

I told him it most likely still stays under deadly weapon clause.

Anyone know?

If not, when I get time I'll look into the new law. Think the new CCW law is only about firearms.


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 18 Aug 2010, 23:46 
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ARS 13-3101 is the section.

The new CCW "law" removed the requirement to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. From everything I've read in the law, about how it was created, etc., it deals with weapons, not limiting to handguns. Double-check though.

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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 19 Aug 2010, 00:15 
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Didn't SB1153 pass?

(Final text of the law with the Governor's requested amendments incorporated)
Section 1. Title 13, chapter 31, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 13-3120, to read:

13-3120. Knives regulated by state; state preemption; definitions
A. Except as provided in subsections C and D, a political subdivision of this state shall not enact any ordinance, rule or tax relating to the transportation, possession, carrying, sale, transfer, purchase, gift, devise, licensing, registration or use of a knife or knife making components in this state.

B. A political subdivision of this state shall not enact any rule or ordinance that relates to the manufacture of a knife and that is more prohibitive than or that has a penalty that is greater than any rule or ordinance that is related to the manufacture of any other commercial goods.

C. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from enacting and enforcing any ordinance or rule pursuant to state law, to implement or enforce state law or relating to imposing any privilege or use tax on the retail sale, lease or rental of, or the gross proceeds or gross income from the sale, lease or rental of, a knife or any knife components at a rate that applies generally to other items of tangible personal property.

D. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from regulating employees or independent contractors of the political subdivision who are acting within the course and scope of their employment or contract.

E. A political subdivision's rule or ordinance that relates to knives and that is inconsistent with or more restrictive than state law, whether enacted before or after the effective date of this amendment to this section, is null and void.

F. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Knife" means a cutting instrument and includes a sharpened or pointed blade.

2. "Political subdivision" includes any county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district, any board, commission or agency of a county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district or any other local public agency.

Legislative intent

It is the intent of the legislature to preempt the regulation of knives in this state. Knife regulation is of statewide concern. Therefore, the legislature intends to limit the ability of any political subdivision of this state to regulate knives. This act applies to any ordinance enacted before or after the effective date of this act.

NOTE: In addition, section 15-341, Arizona Revised Statutes; relating to weapons, was amended by adding reference to this new section 13-3120 to mirror the existing inclusion of the firearms preemption section. This will allow schools to continue to prohibit knives on campus, if they so choose, maintaining the status quo in this regard


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 19 Aug 2010, 00:44 
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Yes SB1153 was passed.

SB 1153 (Signed by the Governor 4/28/10)
Gray C - state preemption; knives

A knife preemption law. Prevents political subdivisions from enacting new knife-related ordinances and voids all existing ordinances more restrictive than state law.

It's all about the state laws now.

Reading laws isn't fun. Question is still carrying pocket over 3" or auto under the new CCW law.

If TimW is right this really opens up carrying a over 3" or auto knife in AZ. Still could be considered a Deadly Weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 19 Aug 2010, 01:39 
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From my understanding of reading it, all "deadly weapons" are considered fair game concealment. Pocket knife allowed lengths vary from city to city and range from 3-3.5". Fixed blades are automatically considered deadly weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 21 Aug 2010, 07:28 
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I recently moved to AZ and search ARS online for some guidance. I've got a 3.5" pocket folder now, but I've had a 4.5" pocket folder before this one. I found nothing in the ARS specifying blade length. Following the logic from this thread, if SB1153 has now passed there should be no blade length restrictions at the county or city level right?


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 23 Aug 2010, 10:05 
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Gents,

Yes, the new CCW law (ARS 13-3102) covers knives (it says "weapons", not "firearms", and that was done for a reason), and knife preemption was passed, see ...

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03120.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

"13-3120. Knives regulated by state; state preemption; definitions

A. Except as provided in subsections C and D, a political subdivision of this state shall not enact any ordinance, rule or tax relating to the transportation, possession, carrying, sale, transfer, purchase, gift, devise, licensing, registration or use of a knife or knife making components in this state.

B. A political subdivision of this state shall not enact any rule or ordinance that relates to the manufacture of a knife and that is more prohibitive than or that has a penalty that is greater than any rule or ordinance that is related to the manufacture of any other commercial goods.

C. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from enacting and enforcing any ordinance or rule pursuant to state law, to implement or enforce state law or relating to imposing any privilege or use tax on the retail sale, lease or rental of, or the gross proceeds or gross income from the sale, lease or rental of, a knife or any knife components at a rate that applies generally to other items of tangible personal property.

D. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from regulating employees or independent contractors of the political subdivision who are acting within the course and scope of their employment or contract.

E. A political subdivision's rule or ordinance that relates to knives and that is inconsistent with or more restrictive than state law, whether enacted before or after the effective date of this amendment to this section, is null and void.

F. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Knife" means a cutting instrument and includes a sharpened or pointed blade.

2. "Political subdivision" includes any county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district, any board, commission or agency of a county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district or any other local public agency. "


All local ordinances regarding knife length, etc., (including Glendale's) are now null and void, whether they like it or not.

If anyone is arrested for violating one of these ordinances, please inform us immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 23 Aug 2010, 14:30 
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Thanks for posting.

Unless stated by an employer or property owner you can carry any length or type of knife.

If you like your auto knife like I do or you think you have to carry your Rambo knife your good to go in the state of AZ.

I take it that this is CCW or NO CCW now.

If you use it to defend yourself then it concered a deadly weapon.


If use to protect yourself then is changes as


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 Post subject: Re: legal knife length?
New postPosted: 04 Sep 2010, 22:17 
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I don't mean to hijack; feel free to ignore, but the concept of "auto knife" has been mentioned. Exactly how is that defined?

I just got by mail order a Smith & Wesson MAGIC Assisted 3rd gen Black Ops 3.4", which seemed like a good value. To my surprise it opens forcefully on its own as soon as the safety is set to red and the blade is started just a little bit. No wrist action needed. I realize that I can carry it as much as I like with my CCW, but would it be considered an "auto", and when if ever would that make a difference?

To tell the truth, this thing intimidates me a bit. Do I trust myself to always use the safety? Don't want that thing opening in my pocket.


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