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Do you voluntarily disclose to LEO that you are carrying?
Yes, I volunteer that information up front. 60%  60%  [ 35 ]
No, I only disclose that information if asked. 40%  40%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 5:45 am 
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AZS is my home
AZS is my home

Joined: September 23rd, 2006, 7:23 am
Posts: 11553
Location: behind you, beside you, in front of you in Phoenix.az , with you.
ynotaz wrote:
Joe_Blacke wrote:
Cops are human beings. Unless you are an a-hole


That's only 1/2 the story. To ignore the other half is unfair.

Sometimes the "cop" is an a-hole or having a bad day. That evokes a reaction from the civilian. Some "cops" reply with a very badge & gun heavy response.

90+% of civilians are just human beings projected into a situation that the "cop" is much more familiar with and the civilian is not. A large percentage of the time the "cop" sets the tone of the encounter.

As a post script; I always answer honestly if asked but I volunteer nothing, there is no need.



Precisely, offer nothing, my experiences have been so so, but discovered a long time ago, the more you say or volunteer, the more the leo wants to make something of it. NOt a fan of leos', as most have been a holes from the get go


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 7:11 am 
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AZS Regular
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Location: Buckeye, AZ
Joe_Blacke wrote:
milquetoast wrote:
I understand that most cops are cool with the CCW, but the risk is that you get the 1 in 100,000, or 1,000,000, or whatever, who is not cool, the one who is a fear-biter and will kill you.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/29/in-light-of-the-philando-castile-shootin
Quote:
Had Castile said nothing about the gun, he in all likelihood would still be alive.

Bullshit.

Do you think Castile was the first armed person this cop encountered? It wasn't but it was the first one he shot.
Castile didn't deserve to get shot. However he violated the biggest rule in officer safety which is being able to see someone's hands.

you said it right,bottom line.........
Castile didn't deserve to get shot.
Why tempt fate. JMHO


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 7:50 am 
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AZS is my home
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 8:14 pm
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Location: Phoenix - AZ
Yes, but my volunteering starts with, "For our mutual safety, I'd like to make you aware of the fact that..."

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Ryan
Glendale, AZ
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 12:20 pm 
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AZS is my home
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We all agree that LEO's are human beings, most human beings are decent people, but some human beings -- and therefore some LEOs -- are trouble.

If the particular contact you have is with one of the decent ones, it doesn't make any difference whether you disclose or not.
- If you don't disclose, take your ticket or warning, be on your way, the subject of your concealed pistol never came up, and the LEO was never in any danger from you, because you are a decent person.
- If you disclose, the decent LEO will say, "Fine, whatever," and finish the contact.
- If you don't disclose, and the computer turns up your CCW, the LEO might (or might not) ask if you are carrying. If you say No, he carries on; if you say Yes, he says "cool" and carries on.

The only time it matters is if you run into one of the exceptions -- an LEO who is a hoplophobe, or a jerk, or is frightened because (unknown to you), you match the description of a cop-killer. Some of us have had contacts when we disclosed, and nothing happened. I have had several contacts where I did not disclose, and nothing happened. So, previous uneventful contacts prove nothing either way -- it's the exceptional ones we need to think about.

If your next contact is one of the exceptions -- frightened LEO or bully LEO -- which course of action do you think will result in the least likelihood of a bad result?

If the LEO says "Thank you for disclosing; now hand me your gun," you have to do it, and that's a safety risk. How are you going to draw and transfer your gun safely? Do you unload it first? Does this particular LEO know about Rules Two and Three, or will he or she cover you with your own gun, finger on the trigger? Will the LEO try to unload it? Does the LEO know how to unload it? ("Sure! Take out the 'clip' and press the trigger, right?") Is there a partner who did not hear the command to hand over your gun, and will shoot you when they see you "reach for it"? There are so many things that can go wrong in that scenario.

If you have a frightened or bully LEO and don't disclose, usually nothing happens -- unless the CCW shows up on the computer. I have had that happen once, with a frightened LEO that got all red in the face and insisted I had violated the law by failing to disclose. I managed to calm him down, but there was potential there for a bad outcome.

In the normal case, disclose or don't disclose doesn't matter. In the exceptional case, either approach could have a bad outcome. What we need to do is decide which course of action is least likely to have a bad outcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 2:31 pm 
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Joined: January 31st, 2008, 5:00 pm
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As a retired LEO I would advise absolutely NOT. Why make a rookie nervous? The law doesn't require it, so why do it? Now if I were the average guy only in violation of a traffic offense or other random meeting and was asked to step out of the car I would indeed notify the officer that I am a licensed carrier and my weapon is in my right waistband, then follow directions because most likely you will go through a quick pat down. You should be asked first by LEO if you are carrying any weapons or contraband, then of course you must answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 4:13 pm 
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AZS; Woohoo!
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^^^^^^ WINNER - The correct answer to this long winded thread [smilie=anim_banghead.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 5:20 pm 
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I just got back from Scottsdale Gun Club. (Wednesday afternoon is my sort of semi-regular range time.) I asked this question of the group and got two answers:
- One said he had been stopped in Scottsdale last week for a supposed late left turn. No ticket, just a warning. He never mentioned that he had a CCW and was carrying a gun. Everybody went on their way, with no fuss.
- Another said he was stopped by DPS several years ago. Being a good do-bee, he handed over his CCW permit along with his license and insurance. The LEO asked him if he had a gun, and he replied honestly, "There are two Glocks in cases under the seat." The LEO ordered him out of the vehicle, patted him down, and called for backup. Two more units showed up, and they removed the pistols, and searched the vehicle. (Warrant? We don't got to show you no steenkin' warrant! You have guns, so that is probable cause, and besides, Officer Safety.) After 45 minutes, they let him go, having found no reason to arrest him or ticket him for anything. Nor did they ever tell him the reason for the stop. They returned his pistols, unloaded -- and disassembled -- in two plastic bags. He filed a complaint, with no action taken. A friend told him that that the LEO who had stopped him had left the department a couple years later "under questionable circumstances," but that is hearsay.

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Guns don't kill people.
Gun-free zones kill people.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 5th, 2017, 8:27 pm 
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AZS is my home
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I've been pulled over about 4'ish times through the last 5-6 years whilst carrying and having a CCW. One time was in Utah.

Every time I told them I had a gun. Twice the guy didn't even want my gun, the other times they removed it and unloaded it. Out of all those times I only got a single speeding ticket, all the other times they let me go.

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Ryan
Glendale, AZ
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 6th, 2017, 6:46 am 
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AZS Addict
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Joined: August 26th, 2007, 4:10 pm
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Over the years I have been stopped quite a few times.
If they ask I tell them. If they don't ask I don't tell them.
Most didn't even give it a second thought.
I have had them take the gun and run the numbers , but have never had them unload it or take it apart.
They have always given it back to me the same way they took it.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 24th, 2017, 2:43 pm 
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What? DPS actually has helped to provide guidance for motorists who have a gun so they DONT get shot?

Advice looks pretty similar to advice given previously.

http://komonews.com/news/nation-world/a ... lice-stops

Gun-friendly Arizona is trying to avoid deadly encounters between police and people behind the wheel by teaching armed drivers how they should handle themselves when they are pulled over...

The new edition of the driver's manual, published about a month ago, advises drivers with guns to keep their hands on the steering wheel during traffic stops and tell officers right away that there's a firearm in the car....

It also tells drivers not to reach for anything inside the vehicle without getting permission first. And officers can take possession of guns, for safety reasons, until the stop is completed. The firearms would be returned if no crime has been committed....

The changes in Arizona happened without a law being passed. The Department of Public Safety worked with Bolding to produce the new guidelines....


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 24th, 2017, 4:00 pm 
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Guidelines are not law. Do what you want, but take the advise of this old cop and keep your mouth shut until asked. Then you must tell. But be prepared with your answer. Something like this if asked: "Officer, I have a concealed weapons permit in my billfold located in my right rear pocket, next to the holstered weapon. How should I proceed?" If it is an old timer, barring any evil indications, he will tell you to carefully reach for your license then keep your hands on the wheel. A young buck, doubtlessly nervous, will pull you out of the car, remove your weapon after backup arrives, and cuff you for your safety until it is worked out. Many do not even know the statute but are acting in fear alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 24th, 2017, 7:13 pm 
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Who said anything about this being a law?

This is what DPS recommends to motorists to achieve the greatest degree of safety for people stopped by the police.

I don't know what agency you were with, but your comments about new officers is puzzling to say the least. Most officer involved shootings are not done by new officers. Also new officers are statistically shown to follow their training. Perhaps your issue is with training then.

Since the early 90s AZ POST training curriculum has been heavily focused on officer safety inclusive of multiple units for typical traffic stops. Most local police follow a multiple unit response for traffic stops, except for cases like motor officers. When was the last time you saw a traffic stop in progress that was only a single unit, save for maybe DPS which usually doesn't have units close enough to do this consistently.

The worst offenses I ever saw were by veteran officers. I'll never forget being 3 weeks out on the road and my 18 years experienced FTO TELLING me he was going to do an illegal search. His words: "f*** it. I'm doing it anyway". How about the guy he arrested on week one without knowing what statute he was thought to have violated except for being disrespectful, and asking ME at the jail what he should put down on the charging sheet. How about the time he pointed his gun at the back of my head when the alert for a felony warrant for the driver came over the radio. I was standing at the drivers window at the time. How about during week 2 when he arrested a guy for dui, which had zero responses on the sfst. Guy blew a .000, but admitted to having one beer 8 hours earlier. Or the fact that several veteran squad members had to go to remedial 4th amendment classes by the county attorney because they kept entering residences without authority. Or the sergeants busted for not responding to calls because they were off screwing. The deputy with 24 years on the job fired for lying during a traffic case hearing.

All the above happened during my first 6 months on the road. It hasn't improved over time.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 24th, 2017, 7:52 pm 
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^^^
That sounds exactly like the kind of guy I want to tell that I am carrying a gun! What could go wrong?

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Guns don't kill people.
Gun-free zones kill people.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 24th, 2017, 9:07 pm 
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Please tell me the benefit you get out of telling without being asked. You are breaking no laws. I will absolutely guarantee the results will be different if you speak out instead of keeping your mouth shut.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you voluntarily tell an LEO that you are carrying?
New postPosted: July 25th, 2017, 6:45 am 
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AZS Addict
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Joined: July 14th, 2005, 9:43 pm
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Location: Mesa
milquetoast wrote:
^^^
That sounds exactly like the kind of guy I want to tell that I am carrying a gun! What could go wrong?



Considering they worked back before the law changed, and CCW had to notify on contact with LE, and none of them ever shot anyone (much less a CCW holder), it probably would have worked out well for you.

It was the ones that didn't say anything (usually the criminal type who wasn't lawfully carrying) that got a gun screwed into their ear when it got found. Even the ones who weren't lawfully carrying but spoke up got a lot better treatment from them.


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