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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 12:41 pm 
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John Kuhns wrote:
Are you crazy? Or perhaps you just skipped history for the last 50 years? North Korea has been threatening its neighbors for years. It is coming up on 50 years since they captured the Pueblo, which they still hold today. The US did nothing at that time and the North has capitalized on it ever since.

Directly or indirectly, the Bush 41 and Clinton Administrations were responsible for allowing the North to pave their way to a nuclear warhead. Prior to that the Russians kept the DPRK nuclear program pretty much in check though it was an open secret the North was trying to develop a nuclear weapon. Agreements with the North during the Clinton years pretty much completed the foundational work needed by the North to get to where it is today. Add in the 1993 agreement between the Clinton Administration and the Chinese to give them the nose cone technology to resolve issues within their own space (read: strategic missile) program and that completed the final steps needed by the North as the Chinese shared the technology with them.

Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il were both unstable but the Chinese were able to keep them in check. Kim Jong Un on the other hand is just unstable enough to launch a strike.

The Chinese know he is unstable and highly volatile. They may warn Trump not to strike first but in reality I think they will strike first. On North Korea. The Chinese know they have a good thing going as Communist capitalists and their trade with North Korea is such that no one would miss it, except for the North Koreans, if they shut it off. Warren Buffet, George Soros, and Bill Gates for example all have net worths greater than the North's GDP. The Chinese currently have a trade favor of $31B for the month of Jan. 2017 with us. The 2016 trade deficit was $347B. No wonder Trump wants to address that. A quick check of figures shows in 2012 China and Japan had a total trade of $334B. For two countries who distrust each other as much as those two do that is a tremendous amount of trade.

So I ask again, do you seriously think they are going to let the overfed kid get out of control?


This is good and what I meant. The Kim's have always been and are currently unstable attention whores. They've been a problem for the last 50 years and the world imposes sanctions and/or undermines their efforts or ignores them. Why provoke them or give them credence by offering up the world stage? Calling his bluff gets us nowhere other than an escalation that we don't need. What do we (the US) gain by this? You can argue we gain oil or rights to oil in any Mideast conflict, or we block Russia from controlling more oil, but what do we get in Korea? Reunite it with the South? All we're really doing is potentially allowing China to get more influence there and in the rest of the world by legitimizing their power to be a world leader/negotiator. As John states China has more to gain and will act first.

A lot of countries "threaten" the US but do we take them seriously or raise them up as legitimate powers? Hell no!


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 1:51 pm 
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Location: Phuk roof top voting machines. My radical right wing extreemists and I are moving on to Guillotines
You gotta a nuke are unstable threaten to kill me? T-lams are 3 presidents too late.

You are a radical 13th imam tard and openly support terrorism against us and your own people and are marching twords nukes? the T-lams should been there by the end of November 1980.

Peace thru utter destruction of those who threaten us.

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***disclaimer*** The preceding post may contain humor and or sarcasm or was manufactured in a brain where humor and sarcasm are known to be present so some cross contamination may have occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 1:54 pm 
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You are ignoring the fact that a lot of countries threaten us but many of them also don't possess nuclear weapons or have developed the means of delivering them to CONUS. Iran for example has already upped its game with their recent missile launches into Syria. The target areas are not that far from Israel. Can you imagine what that will mean once the Persians test their first nuclear warhead?

Once again, I ask if you skipped history class for the last 50 years. The truth of the matter is the United States is directly responsible for the situation on the Korean peninsula. The Pacific War was by far and large a US affair. The European allies played a small part. Sorry, but those are the facts. The Commonwealth countries had most of their troops in North Africa and the ETO. Shortly after V-E the Russians *offered* to get involved and were told in no uncertain terms to stay the f*** out. As a consolation prize Truman agreed to let the Russians attack the Japanese in Mongolia. Any invasion of the Japanese home islands under Operations Downfall, Olympic and Coronet would be solely a US effort. Yes, that's just how pissed we were with the Japanese.

Japan's surrender in August of 1945 led to the Russians *insisting* they be part of any occupation force of the home islands. Again, they were told to f*** off. By this time Truman was beginning to accept the fact that Stalin was going to break every agreement regarding post-war Europe so why give him the chance in Japan? Once again, Korea was the consolation prize to shut him up and thus Korea was divided along the 38th parallel. Thus set the stage for the situation we have today.

Every administration since then has simply kicked the can down the road. Remember, at the time of the Korean War we were a nation that had just come off a global war, were mostly an army of occupation, and busy dealing with the Russians and their aspirations to become what Hitler sought to be. Therefore, Korea was really of little consequence and 95% of America had no clue where it was.

We could have finished the issue in 1950-51 and without the use of nuclear weapons. The North Korean Army was well armed, mostly with obsolete and older weapons, thanks to the Russians but mediocre in terms of training. But, unlike the cousins below the 38th parallel, they had a passion and an inspirational leader. Syngman Rhee on the other hand was not popular nor was he well liked. What he had though was the support of McArthur because of the fact he was a staunch anti-communist. That along with the paranoia of the spread of Communism throughout the free world is what led to US involvement in Korea. The Chinese Army was much like the DPRK; their big advantage of course was numbers. They had more.

Part of the decision that drove the US to not up the ante was concern over the Russians getting involved. Never mind they were already there either in support or direct combat roles. The Russians flew a lot of air combat missions during the war and tangled with the US pilots on more than one occasion. Truman, followed by Eisenhower, simply did not want to be responsible for WWIII over a country the majority of people never heard of nor cared about.

I'll fill in the years between 1953 and say about 1993 later but for now, like it or not, North Korea is a legitimate power and has been for 20 or 30 years. Having a nuclear weapon in your hand and fanatical leaders just fanatical enough is sufficient to get you some attention. For years everyone appeased the Kims by giving them rice, medicine, and for godsakes, nuclear technology. All because no one wanted to fight another land war in Korea. By this time the South Korean economy flourished and took off. That and along with the Japanese economy are what we were committed to protecting without firing a shot.

In the meantime, businesses decided that doing business with China was simply good business and now the Chinese economy is booming. The Chinese have taken that wealth and have invested it accordingly. They may not be 100% on par yet with the US and Russia but they are getting better every year. And remember, and land war in Asia would be on their home turf (so to speak) and their supply lines will be a hell of a lot shorter than ours. The problem is they let the Kims have too much rope on the leash and now they've contributed substantially to the present day issue. The fat kid has more than once threatened his masters. As someone here said, what has he got to lose? His rockets have the range to hit Beijing just as easily as they can Guam. I guarantee you the Chinese are working overtime to come up with a solution to this problem.

That is why I firmly believe the Chinese have an open line to President Trump. They already know he won't hesitate and probably don't want to be sitting at dinner with him and have him announce "oh by the way, we just launched a few cruise missiles into Pyonyang. How's the beef? Can I offer you more wine?"


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 2:33 pm 
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John's got it!....


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 6:33 pm 
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Nice, John

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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 6:43 pm 
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Mr. Kuhns has it down...

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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 12th, 2017, 8:35 pm 
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The Korea situation is very complex and years in the making. Unfortunately, the "never Trumpers" including those here have fallen for the MSM bait in trying to blame the current escalation on the President's political ignorance and his own volatile temper. I suppose they would prefer the approach LBJ took to escalate US involvement in Vietnam. Only in this case, if the North really did nuke Guam I am 100% confident they, the MSM, the Democrats and all of the other 9-11 conspiracy theorists would claim it was a strike launched by Trump to get us into Korea.

If anyone doubts me on the volatility of the situation just remember how the markets reacted shortly after 9-11. Now multiply that 1000-fold or more. Every major market and every economy will tank within hours. Just look how it reacts every time the Persians act up now. Unlike Obama, Trump is being advised by some of the best and the brightest when it comes to military affairs. He will not make a move without having explored all of the options and the potential outcomes.


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 13th, 2017, 6:54 am 
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^ John, well written and concise as usual sir.

Interesting read here about the Pakistani who sold nuke components to Iran and North Korea.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2004_03/Pakistan

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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 13th, 2017, 9:25 am 
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Pakistan is one of those *allies* whose interests are not always on the same page as the US. Even today I am convinced they knew full well Osama bin Laden was living in Abbottabad and simply chose to not say anything. Everyone does recall how little public *outrage* there was from the Pakistanis following the raid. They knew. And were busted.


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 13th, 2017, 9:53 am 
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And remember the Pakistani Doctor that is doing 30 years hard labor for helping us get OBL, who was so nicely outed/exposed by Obama and Hillary.

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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: August 13th, 2017, 10:03 am 
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herd wrote:
And remember the Pakistani Doctor that is doing 30 years hard labor for helping us get OBL, who was so nicely outed/exposed by Obama and Hillary.

Absolutely correct herd.

Love him or hate him, I still am thankful it is NOT President Hillary Clinton.


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: September 3rd, 2017, 9:55 am 
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Game changer, if the nuclear test they just did was a hydrogen nuke. Huge difference when the bombs are thermonuclear. There may be no choice now than to take the crazy fat dork out. Talk about a giant shit sandwich. The Chinese leadership are hugely to blame for this clusterf**k and should take care of the problem, but they won't; that's clear at this point. I'll bet big war is coming...soon, and it's going to be ugly as hell. I sure don't think that "living with" North Korea having the capability to nuke us with ICBM's and thermonuclear weapons is any choice at all. Not to mention all the other stuff they can think of to blackmail the world, or selling nukes to terrorists.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-0 ... clear-test

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-0 ... s-well-see


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: September 3rd, 2017, 10:46 am 
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Well all past President's, Including the Bush's let this get this far. The first time NK got outa line we shoulda hit them hard rather then try to buy them, always use power, never try to buy/bribe them. Now I pray President Trump "Turns the Dogs of War lose" with "No Mercy", kill a Million NK's or more for all I care, no Troops on Ground, all missile strikes and Drones till their offensive capabilities are dead. Then Air Power to clean up, let the World Know you poke the Americans, you Die!!! Afterwards even the Lefties will see its better to kill then try to bribe, Peace Thru Power!!!

Like the Fram Oil Filter ad says you can pay now or later, the longer this goes on the better developed his Nukes will be and his Military equipped and trained. Yes we and South Korea will take causalities, but its gonna happen now or later better now before he gets even more powerful!!

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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: September 3rd, 2017, 11:40 am 
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Something is coming. I put money on it being North Korea. I have had some interesting conversations the last couple weeks with clients. If we don't do this now and do it completely we may never again have the chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Locked And Loaded on North Korea
New postPosted: September 4th, 2017, 10:34 am 
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There are 10M people in Seoul who are probably hoping it doesn't, or something else is done.

It's fairly obvious the primary job of the North Korean military is to provide a threat, not fight a war. In spite of the numbers, the North Koreans would still lose a conventional war. And, much like Iraq, which also had a very substantial army, it would disintegrate into various guerrilla units. We're already not faring too well against less capable guerrillas as it is.

But yet the threat, as it is, has been highly effective these part 30 years. Each time the Kim regime has come out a little stronger. Interestingly enough, I found this on another website and it is thought-provoking:

Quote:
Thus, the big question is how many people in Seoul the North Koreans can kill, and how quickly. Their best strategy is to put 100% of their long-range artillery within range of Seoul, and to use 100% of their other armed forces to defend the long-range artillery.

First question: how many people can North Korea kill in one day of all-out firing? One day is what matters, because the US and South Korea will probably find and destroy the artillery after one day. But one day is probably enough.

Second question: Is there a way for North Korea to kill enough people the first day, but to still keep enough artillery undestroyed and enough territory unconquered to threaten a second day of bombardment? This is important to making the threat of the first-day bombardment credible. If the US invades, and the first-day threat is carried out, that's bad for the US and South Korea, but North Korea has shot its wad and might as well give up. In fact, there's no point in carrying out the threat if it hasn't worked to stop the invasion. If, however, North Korea has enough left for a second day, the threat is more credible and after the civilian losses the first day, South Korea and the US might call off its invasion. Of course, a week's breathing space so the press can report on the casualties of the first day would be even better.


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